Unveiling Erin Kinsella Consecrated Virgin
INTRODUCTION
In the latest episode of Unveiled we welcome Consecrated Virgin Erin Kinsella to the show. Erin shares her unique journey of faith and her experience with consecrated virginity, a vocation that is not as widely known. We explore what it means to be a bride of Christ in today's world, and Erin’s reflections on her own discernment process are both inspiring and relatable. You'll hear about the joys and challenges she faces, as well as her humorous take on the little things in life, like the infamous “Sunday loophole” during Lent. This episode is filled with light-hearted banter, laughter, and a few unexpected audio mishaps (sorry listeners, bear with us as we learn) – so grab your snacks and settle in for an engaging conversation that’s sure to uplift and encourage. Whether you're curious about discernment or just looking for a fun listen, this episode has something for everyone!
TAKEAWAYS
- This episode dives deep into the concept of discernment, especially for women considering their vocations.
- Consecrated Virgin Erin Kinsella shares her unique journey and experiences with faith and service.
- We are reminded that every vocation is a personal adventure filled with God’s surprises and joy.
- We learn that discernment isn't just about finding one path, but about understanding what God desires for us each day and in each moment
- The episode highlights the importance of community and relationships in the journey of discernment.
- Listeners are encouraged to embrace the unknowns of life, finding joy in trusting God's plan.
LIST OF AWESOME
*Things mentioned by our hosts and guests. Although we expect much of these are wonderful and helpful, please don't consider it a blanket endorsement for all (we simply don't have time to review everything mentioned in each episode). Enjoy!
- Lenten Loophole Summon the Scholar with Father Matthew Ramsay
- In The Thicket podcast with Erin Kinsella: www.inthethicketpodcast.com
- Pre-order on Amazon Erin's book about the vocation of consecrated virginity, Espoused to Christ: A Theology of Consecrated Virginity
Print and pray daily the Unveiled Discernment Prayer - Prayer
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Transcript
Wait, is this recording?
Speaker B:Welcome to the first season of Unveiled, a podcast series for girls and women of all ages, where we dive into the world of discernment.
Speaker A:How long has this been recorded?
Speaker C:Hello?
Speaker D:Hello?
Speaker E:Hello?
Speaker A:Can you hear us?
Speaker F:Hi.
Speaker B:Unveiled is produced by Sharon Lyne, Karen Yuen and myself, Pax Yuan, in partnership with Arise Catholic Movements.
Speaker C:You just need to feed us some sugar.
Speaker A:As you can hear, we're clearly learning how to do this.
Speaker B:Discover the beauty of discernment with your hosts, Jacinta Lyne and Claire Ewan.
Speaker D:Take it from the top, people.
Speaker C:Hey, everyone.
Speaker B:Before we begin this episode, we felt the need to give you a quick heads up as we are still learning all the mechanics of how to do a podcast.
Speaker B:This episode may involve some audio mishaps.
Speaker B:You may hear beverage slurping, echoing, low volume chair shuffling, and tippity tappity typing.
Speaker B:While we are aiming to get the best quality audio, we hope you can bear with us as we learn.
Speaker B:So please enjoy this episode despite the extra accidental sound effects.
Speaker G:Hello everyone, and welcome to our third episode of Unveiled.
Speaker G:We will be interviewing Consecrated Virgin Aaron Kinsella.
Speaker A:Is this episode three?
Speaker H:Because, I mean, last one was technically a two part.
Speaker H:Is that one?
Speaker G:Maybe it's two because it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker G:One, two, three.
Speaker G:Doesn't matter.
Speaker H:Anyway, if you have not yet listened to our first 12 episodes where we interviewed the sisters of the presentation, we highly recommend checking it out.
Speaker G:Yeah, it was really good.
Speaker G:Really beautiful.
Speaker H:Yeah.
Speaker H:So what's the snack of choice today?
Speaker C:Well, for your sake, Jacinta, we have forfeited our snack, so we will be tasting the air along with you.
Speaker H:I feel special.
Speaker F:I feel so seen.
Speaker G:Yeah.
Speaker H:Anyway, how is life going for you guys?
Speaker C:Um, good.
Speaker C:Still gaming up bucks.
Speaker C:Still hard.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker G:I feel like our family is more working on virtues of love and obedience and just overall only actions and words of kindness.
Speaker H:So has that been hard?
Speaker G:Um, not really for me.
Speaker G:I wouldn't say I love your sister.
Speaker H:And Claire has a different opinion on.
Speaker C:Things.
Speaker G:Anyways because she has no backup case.
Speaker G:She has no backup case, which means she was just saying it randomly for the camera.
Speaker H:Claire has no support to this.
Speaker G:She was just like, anyway.
Speaker G:Oh, how's your Lent been, Jacinda?
Speaker A:Pretty good.
Speaker H:I'm still doing the pray 40 on Hallow.
Speaker H:It's been really good so far.
Speaker A:Really enjoyed it.
Speaker C:Speaking of Lent, we are debating the Sunday loophole, so we brought in an expert.
Speaker E:Summon the Scholar.
Speaker A:Welcome Father Matt to this segment we like to call Summon the Scholar.
Speaker E:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker A:Father Matthew Ramsey used to be our Parish prince priest here in Saskatoon until he got moved to a small town in Saskatchewan.
Speaker C:Would you say that was a demotion, Father Matthew?
Speaker E:Not at all.
Speaker E:I'm happy to serve wherever I'm supposed to go.
Speaker E:Serve.
Speaker A:Good answer.
Speaker E:That's a trick question already.
Speaker E:I'll have to be careful here.
Speaker A:So today we're debating the Sunday loophole in Lent.
Speaker A:Can you tell us about it and what your standpoint on.
Speaker A:On this is?
Speaker E:Oh, boy.
Speaker E:Yeah, sure.
Speaker E:So the Sunday loophole being how you can maybe kind of relax your fast during Lent, relax your penance on Sundays in Lent.
Speaker E:Is that it?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker E:Okay.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker E:So actually interesting you asked because one thing that I took on this Lent for myself is I'm reading a book called the Golden Legend.
Speaker E:And it's a medieval collection of lies of the saints.
Speaker E:And they had a little section there about Lent.
Speaker E: n this book is written in the: Speaker E:I thought it was neat because I've heard that idea that we don't do the fast on the Sundays of Lent, but I actually didn't know.
Speaker E:Is this kind of a new idea?
Speaker E:Because often in modern days, we kind of got a little lazy sometimes about fasting.
Speaker E:Is this kind of our modern laziness coming into Sunday?
Speaker E: But no, this book from the: Speaker E:They still Sundays of Lent, but not the Lenten fast.
Speaker A:So what will be the theology of that?
Speaker E:Yeah, the idea is how every Sunday is a celebration of the Lord's resurrection.
Speaker E:And when we're celebrating his resurrection, then we celebrate.
Speaker E:It's a day to feast, even in Lent, still a celebration of the Lord's resurrection.
Speaker C:So what I'm hearing is that the Sunday loophole may be lazy.
Speaker E:Is that what you're hearing?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker E:Well, here's what I think I would say, like, the goal of Lent is growing in holiness.
Speaker E:That really what Lent is about, Right.
Speaker E:As we prepare for Easter.
Speaker E:And we grow in holiness by fasting.
Speaker E:Well.
Speaker E:And we grow in holiness by feasting.
Speaker E:Well.
Speaker E:So as long as we're remembering Sunday, I think with that in mind, then I wouldn't call it laziness.
Speaker E:I would call it just grilling in holiness by fast, by feasting on Sundays.
Speaker E:But I think that means a few things, right?
Speaker E:Like, one thing it would mean, I would say is like, let's say if in Lent, if a person gave up, like, playing video games for Lent, if I'm going to say, well, I'm going to honor the Lord's Day now by playing video games for 12 hours on Sunday, that doesn't really make sense, right?
Speaker E:Or if someone says, well, I'm going to for Lent, maybe someone was lying a lot in Lent, I'm really going to try hard not to lie at all.
Speaker E:But then on Sunday, in honor of the Lord's Day, I'm going to lie again.
Speaker E:That doesn't make sense.
Speaker E:So if we're avoiding sin, we keep doing that.
Speaker E:Or if we're taking on acts of piety, like if I say, well, for Lent, I'm going to try to read the Bible every day, but on Sunday, to honor the Lord's resurrection, I'm not going to read the Bible.
Speaker E:That doesn't make sense either.
Speaker E:But let's say if for Lent, if I decide I'm going to give up coffee for Lent, but on Sunday to celebrate the Lord's Day, I'm going to have like, not five pots.
Speaker E:I'm going to have one cup of coffee.
Speaker E:And as I do it, though, I'm really going to enjoy it.
Speaker E:I'm going to consider about how the beauty of the smell and the flavor and example of the good things God has given us and gratitude to God in celebration of the joy of creation and salvation.
Speaker E:I'm going to have this on Sunday.
Speaker E:That's a big way we can grow in holiness by feasting.
Speaker E:My take on it.
Speaker A:Good answer to the trick question.
Speaker E:Is that a trick question?
Speaker E:So what do you guys think?
Speaker E:In your families, do you guys do the Sunday celebration or do you fast all the way through?
Speaker A:I kind of read a whole book on Sunday and I gave up reading.
Speaker A:So with.
Speaker E:Okay, you binged.
Speaker E:You binged on Sunday.
Speaker F:I did, yeah.
Speaker A:I enjoyed the books.
Speaker F:So.
Speaker E:Did it bring you closer to Jesus reading the whole book?
Speaker A:I mean, now I'm not tempted to finish it.
Speaker A:So I guess so.
Speaker E:Nice to.
Speaker C:What I did was I gave up books as well.
Speaker C:But if I were to start a book, I'd want to finish it and that would be breaking my phone.
Speaker C:So I didn't.
Speaker A:Okay, that's why.
Speaker E:Yeah, but then you don't have the.
Speaker E:The discipline of resisting temptation.
Speaker E:Now that you finish the book, you're losing that piece of it.
Speaker A:Yes, but lots of other books in the house.
Speaker E:More books to tempt you.
Speaker A:Why did it take this week to get all their books from the library?
Speaker A:It was like, wow, the testing age.
Speaker E:You see, growing up, I didn't know about this.
Speaker E:So growing up, we just did our lantern Fast all the way through.
Speaker E:It wasn't until I think I got to university I heard about this.
Speaker E:This great exception for Sundays, actually.
Speaker C:That's funny, because my mom did that, too.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Thank you for joining us for our first Summon the Scholar.
Speaker A:Maybe you'll be back if we have another question that we need answered.
Speaker E:Well, hey, happy you're part of this.
Speaker E:I don't know if Claire and Pax told me, but I had suffer at their place last night, and I listened to episode one of your podcast.
Speaker E:It was very fun to hear.
Speaker E:Yeah, I listened with my mom, and she loves Attegreen Gable, so she appreciated that whole section as well.
Speaker E:And I was glad the Malawi nuns got a mention.
Speaker E:That made me happy, even if you didn't mention the shadow boxing and the singing.
Speaker A:No, I didn't.
Speaker E:Later.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm saving up for a future episode, I guess.
Speaker E:Oh, there's a spoiler for everybody.
Speaker E:Even though I'm not a nun, I'm honored to be part of the podcast.
Speaker H:So we didn't really get a super definitive answer, but it sounds like the whole of Lent.
Speaker H:As long as what you're doing is bringing you closer to God, then it's okay.
Speaker G:We are super excited about this week's guest, Consecrated Virgin, Erin Kinsella.
Speaker G:So get your snacks, gather your grills, get comfy, and.
Speaker G:And enjoy this episode of Unveiled Unveiling.
Speaker C:Erin Kinsella, consecrated virgin from Ontario.
Speaker A:Hi.
Speaker F:Hello.
Speaker F:I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker F:How are you guys?
Speaker A:We're good.
Speaker A:Just for.
Speaker A:I'm Jacinta.
Speaker C:And I'm Claire.
Speaker A:Yeah, we're so excited that you're here with us today.
Speaker A:First off, it's lots of fun just to love and get to know you and your story.
Speaker A:So where are you from?
Speaker A:Grow up, and most importantly, what's your favorite kind of sandwich?
Speaker F:Nice.
Speaker F:Okay, so where am I from?
Speaker F:Is a good question.
Speaker F:My dad was in the rcmp, so I lived, like, a bunch of places.
Speaker F:And if people are listening and they don't know what the RCMP is, that's like the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
Speaker F:And we lived in.
Speaker F:I was born in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
Speaker F:Then we lived in Lynn Lake, Manitoba, Falcon Lake, Manitoba, Richmond, bc, Fort Quel, Saskatchewan, Regina, Saskatchewan, Yarmouth, Nova Scotia.
Speaker F:And then I went a bunch of other places and.
Speaker F:Yeah, and so that's me.
Speaker F:I grew up Catholic and was, like, away from the practice of the faith for a while and had a really beautiful conversion and then discerned this vocation of consecrated virginity, which I know we'll talk about.
Speaker F:And Then my favorite kind of sandwich is.
Speaker F:Oh, it's tough choice.
Speaker F:I'm not a huge sandwich fan, but I would say if I had to pick, probably egg salad.
Speaker F:But it cannot have onions in it because onions are the work of the devil.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I just feel the need to point out that I hate egg salad sandwiches.
Speaker F:Really?
Speaker F:Okay, what's your favorite type of sandwich?
Speaker A:I'd like just give pizza sandwich or just cheese lettuce.
Speaker F:Ooh, a pizza sandwich.
Speaker F:I didn't know that was an option.
Speaker F:Yeah, I would choose that one first.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker F:Okay.
Speaker F:I would choose that one too.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker C:Anyway, I like Subway sandwiches or chicken sandwiches.
Speaker F:Chicken is also solid, except for Subway chicken.
Speaker F:They took away the roast chicken, which I liked, even though it probably wasn't even real chicken.
Speaker F:But I sad.
Speaker F:I sad when it went away.
Speaker F:This is good.
Speaker F:Can I ask a question?
Speaker F:Because it's starting to have snow melting here, but I lived in Saskatchewan for lots of years and you guys are there now.
Speaker F:So is it still.
Speaker F:Is there still tons of snow or is it getting nice yet?
Speaker A:Sadly, we had like a week of warm weather and it was melting away.
Speaker A:And then a few days.
Speaker A:No again.
Speaker F:Okay.
Speaker F:No longer spring, but yeah, People in.
Speaker F:On people in, like, Ontario and the US get weirded out when or like, they look around in disbelief when you talk about cars, because in Manitoba, at least, I don't know if it's the same in Saskatchewan.
Speaker F:But you have to have, like, you know, where you plug your car in at night so there's like a block heater and you have to plug your car in so that your engine doesn't freeze overnight.
Speaker F:But that's like, only a thing in the Prairies.
Speaker F:It doesn't happen anywhere else in Canada or the U.S.
Speaker F:i don't think, anyways.
Speaker F:But I just have to say I don't miss that part because I always used to be afraid that I would electrocute myself when I was plugging my car and they would find my dead body in a snowbank in the morning.
Speaker A:You know, on the note of dead bodies, let's move on to the next question.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:When you were younger, what was your dream to be when you grew up?
Speaker F:Oh, that's a really good question.
Speaker F:I think for a little while I wanted to be like, a ballerina, except for I never actually did ballet, so it probably would have been hard to be ballerina.
Speaker F:And then for a little while, I wanted to be a doctor, I think, or like a nurse, because my mom was a nurse.
Speaker F:And then after that, like, when I got a little bit Older then I wanted to be a scientist and work in science stuff, which I actually ended up doing.
Speaker F:So I did a degree in microbiology and immunology and specialized in virology.
Speaker F:So I got to work with, like, deadly contagious viruses, which was super fun.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Deadly viruses.
Speaker A:Nothing like it.
Speaker F:That's true.
Speaker A:Why did you choose sciences?
Speaker F:Oh, that's a good question too.
Speaker F:I think I chose it because.
Speaker F:Because I wanted to do something that could make a difference in people's lives.
Speaker F:So I really wanted to study, like, deadly contagious viruses because then I could go around the world and be like a virus hunter.
Speaker F:Like people who go to, like, sub Saharan Africa where there are outbreaks of Ebola and so they like trace down the beginning of the outbreak to places and look at containing the outbreak.
Speaker F:So I thought that that would be super cool.
Speaker F:And I also like.
Speaker F:I also liked seeing how, like, something like DNA that you can't see, but it's like there, like you can visualize it with through like, different tests and things like that.
Speaker F:So it's like, fascinating to me how kind of figured out how to see all of these things and how to like, work with DNA and viruses.
Speaker F:And it was just like, super cool to me.
Speaker F:And I also really loved because with like the.
Speaker F:So there's like four levels of bio containment if you're working with viruses or like different pathogens.
Speaker F:And the highest level is level four.
Speaker F:And that's the one where, if you've seen movies about viruses where people wear like the big blue spacesuits and stuff like that in the lab.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker F:So I told.
Speaker F:I wanted to wear the big blue space suit and do crazy stuff in the lab.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker A:Mom said that you're a nerd.
Speaker F:I am a nerd.
Speaker F:Totally.
Speaker F:But I will own my nerdiness.
Speaker A:I know, so will I.
Speaker A:Yeah, See, it's good.
Speaker A:Questions why I build giant things out of lego.
Speaker A:I'm just like.
Speaker A:Because I'm a nerd.
Speaker F:Nice.
Speaker F:Okay.
Speaker F:So my nephew, who is nine, just got a Hogwarts LEGO set like everybody contributed for his birthday.
Speaker F:So it's like, like the whole Hogwarts ground.
Speaker F:And it's like.
Speaker F: I think it's like: Speaker F:So like the biggest one that he's done, which is.
Speaker F:Which is great.
Speaker F:He loves Lego.
Speaker F:And all of the other LEGO sets that he gets are then immediately broken by his little brother, who has five and is a terror, but very cute.
Speaker F:And so this one they put on a very high shelf so he does not have access to it five year old terror.
Speaker A:Sounds like my little brother and my other brother.
Speaker F:Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker F:Nice.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker F:What kind of stuff do you build with Lego?
Speaker F:What's your like biggest LEGO accomplishment?
Speaker A:I built this like cool house once that had very detailed furniture and kitchen had like a little alcove under the stairs.
Speaker A:That was my big nice until Killian destroyed it.
Speaker F:Okay.
Speaker F:Excellent.
Speaker F:Yes.
Speaker F:Have you heard?
Speaker F:Oh, sorry.
Speaker F:Go, go.
Speaker C:Dissected by my siblings.
Speaker C:They're either dropped or got put away and got broken in the process.
Speaker F:But excellent.
Speaker F:I think there's like an app, I can't remember what it's called, like brick it or something like that where you can take like a handful.
Speaker F:Is that the one?
Speaker F:Take like a handful of Lego and you can like lay it out, take a picture of it and then it'll give you a bunch of like things that you can build from that Lego along with the instructions and stuff.
Speaker F:I thought that was cool.
Speaker A:I've heard of it.
Speaker A:We haven't used it.
Speaker F:I think it's pretty cool.
Speaker F:But I have also not used it.
Speaker F:And also I'm.
Speaker F:I don't like Lego because my nails are never long enough to actually get it apart and we can never find those LEGO breaker things and the whole pile of LEGO that's there.
Speaker F:So I stay away from it.
Speaker F:I let my nephew do it.
Speaker A:So what do you play with then?
Speaker F:Oh, me, I am basically like an old lady and I have a cat.
Speaker F:And also I joined my parish's.
Speaker F:Oh, I'll show you.
Speaker F:I joined my parish's crow like prayer shaw ministry.
Speaker F:So I have like this massive prayer shawl thing.
Speaker F:So I learned how to crochet.
Speaker F:So if I'm like watching stuff on tv, like I'm watching, I don't know, the chosen for the eighth time or whatever, then I'll.
Speaker F:I'll do some crocheting while I do it so that at least somebody can benefit from my idle time, which is fun.
Speaker F:So I do that.
Speaker F:And then I also do.
Speaker F:I play guitar.
Speaker F:So I have, I wrote some songs and I do a music ministry at my parish on Sunday nights.
Speaker F:And then a lot of my other time I kind of just spend hanging out with my, with my nephews because it's fun to be here.
Speaker F:I used to not live in Ottawa.
Speaker F:I was in Toronto.
Speaker F:But then living in Ottawa is nice because then I get to be with them all the time.
Speaker F:And so my time is mostly spent like hanging out with them and then recovering from hanging out with them is pretty much how it Goes, you know, do you guys have younger siblings?
Speaker F:Do you know.
Speaker F:You know this?
Speaker F:I know you do.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker F:Okay, so.
Speaker F:So what do you do when you're, like, gonna pull your hair out because everything is, like, super loud and crazy and, like, what's your strategy to combat that?
Speaker C:Well, I can't exactly go to my room since I share it with all four of my siblings.
Speaker F:Awesome.
Speaker C:I have that.
Speaker F:At least.
Speaker C:I would say, like, retreat.
Speaker F:Nice.
Speaker F:Retreat.
Speaker F:Go for a walk.
Speaker A:That's a good idea.
Speaker A:I normally just put my room and read.
Speaker F:Okay, nice.
Speaker A:Because I gave it up for Len, and it's frustrating.
Speaker F:Oh, reading.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker F:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker F:That's intense.
Speaker F:Is it because you, like, love to read so much, and you would just, like, read, like, 24 hours a day if you could do it.
Speaker F:Okay, excellent.
Speaker A:I found that, like, I ended up rushing evening prayer because I wanted to get green and I wanted, like, lots of time.
Speaker F:Yes.
Speaker F:Yep.
Speaker F:That's a good thing then.
Speaker A:So I heard that you have a podcast.
Speaker A:What is this podcast?
Speaker F:I do.
Speaker F:It's a podcast called in the Thicket, which is a podcast on hope and suffering.
Speaker F:And we actually have.
Speaker F:We're taking a little break from now until the fall, but we have five kind of full seasons of.
Speaker F:Of, like, weekly episodes for people to go and listen to if they're interested.
Speaker F:And essentially, it kind of came from one of my friends who we had this share group.
Speaker F:There were four of us together.
Speaker F:And then one of the girls, when we were having supper one time, said was talking about how she would like to host kind of a podcast where she would have conversations with people, and.
Speaker F:And she would basically just talk to people honestly about suffering and about their experiences of, like, trying to find the Lord in their suffering or to make sense of their suffering, which we all thought was a really good idea, because sometimes it's like, you can go to.
Speaker F:To church or to, like, some other thing, and you're surrounded by, you know, people of faith or whatever, and everybody's like, how are you?
Speaker F:Like, oh, good, the Lord is blessing.
Speaker F:So I'm like, yeah, that's possibly true, but also it might be that you're going through the worst time of your life right now, and sometimes we don't really feel very free to talk about those things.
Speaker F:So we wanted to kind of have that kind of space where people would.
Speaker F:Would hear from other people who are going through times of suffering.
Speaker F:So we did that.
Speaker F:And we've had lots of fun guests on.
Speaker F:We got to have Mother or.
Speaker F:Sorry, Sister Miriam James Hydland.
Speaker F:She Joined us for an episode which was really fun.
Speaker F:And we had Father Christino Bouvet, actually, who's really cool.
Speaker F:He's an indigenous priest from the Diocese of Calgary, and he was the liturgical coordinator for Pope Francis's visit.
Speaker F:And he has such beautiful story.
Speaker F:So we had him on there.
Speaker F:We had.
Speaker F:There's a woman named Christine Moss who lost her husband in his 30s to cancer, and so she shares about her story.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker F:So we've had lots of guests talking about lots of different things, which is.
Speaker F:Which is fun.
Speaker F:Plus, also, it sounds like it's a depressing podcast because we're talking about suffering, but it's not because we're all very hilarious, so that helps.
Speaker A:Who would your dream guest be?
Speaker F:Oh, such a good question.
Speaker F:My dream guest.
Speaker F:Do they have to be alive, or could they be dead?
Speaker A:I'd say they don't have to be alive.
Speaker F:Okay, perfect.
Speaker F:Then John Paul ii for sure.
Speaker F:A hundred percent.
Speaker F:Because he wrote a document called Salvifici Dolores, which is on the Christian meaning of human suffering.
Speaker F:And it's beautiful.
Speaker F:It's like, one of my favorite writings of his, and it's one of the ones that I used for my master's thesis.
Speaker F:So I would definitely talk to him because he.
Speaker F:His whole life was, like, such a beautiful witness about finding the Lord in suffering and finding joy even in difficult places.
Speaker F:He just encountered so much suffering in his life.
Speaker F:Um, but when you look at him, like, he's so joyful, especially when he was encountering the person in front of him, it was like he just was super present to just that person because he believed in, like, the goodness and the beauty and the dignity and the uniqueness of every person.
Speaker F:And I think he really loved that.
Speaker F:Well, you know, how about you guys?
Speaker F:If you could.
Speaker F:If you could have any person on this podcast at some point, who would, like, your dream person be.
Speaker C:Okay?
Speaker C:I would probably choose a saint, like Saint Rose of Lima or Saint Teresa, because they show just such.
Speaker C:Like, they stick to something, they choose it and they go for it.
Speaker C:And I think that's.
Speaker C:What about you, Jacinta?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I'll go for maybe Saint Scholastica, who was the sister of Saint Benedict.
Speaker A:And I'd love to hear what it was like having a sibling and then nice losing him.
Speaker A:I'm pretty sure she outlived him, and I'd love to hear her story from her in her.
Speaker F:That's cool.
Speaker F:And if you had to choose somebody.
Speaker F:This is.
Speaker F:I'm also interested in if you had to choose somebody who's like, living now.
Speaker F:Who would you choose?
Speaker A:I don't know many people like orders now, but I have some friends from Africa who I would love to have on the show at some point.
Speaker F:Nice.
Speaker A:They're Carmelites, but nice Malawi.
Speaker A:So I got to their guest house while I was in Africa, so I'd love to have a few of them on the show.
Speaker F:Nice.
Speaker C:So, on the topic of your podcast, Paxon, my sister, we watched your introduction video and you mentioned odd winks.
Speaker C:Would you like to tell us about that and if you had any this week?
Speaker F:Oh, yes.
Speaker F:This is a good question, too.
Speaker F:So God winks are kind of like this experience of God, like, reaching into whatever is happening and often kind of in a humorous way just to be like, hey, chill out, I'm here.
Speaker F:So for me, it was like the first.
Speaker F:The first.
Speaker F:The one that I kind of use as an example was one time when I was living in Toronto and I had.
Speaker F:There was just, like, a bunch of stuff that was all happening at the same time.
Speaker F:And I'm rarely at a loss for, like, words or ideas for what to do to handle things that come up.
Speaker F:But I was, like, totally flabbergast.
Speaker F:I was like, lord, I don't know what I'm going to do.
Speaker F:And I was, like, freaking out a bit inside.
Speaker F:And then I went to the Tim Hortons to get a coffee, and I walked into Tim's and it was like, it was Smile Cookie Day.
Speaker F:Like, you know when they have Smile Cookie Day.
Speaker F:If people who are listening are not familiar with this, it's basically like they have cookies and they use icing to put smiles on the cookies.
Speaker F:And then you can buy the cookies and they donate the money to, I think, Tim Hortons Children's Camps or something like that.
Speaker F:So, anyways, it was Smile Cookie Day, except for it was, like, an unseasonably warm September, and so all of the icing that was on the cookies was, like, running down the face of the cookie, and it looked like all the cookies were weeping.
Speaker F:And I thought.
Speaker F:I looked at it.
Speaker F:I was.
Speaker F:I just laughed so hard.
Speaker F:And it was like the Lord was like, all right, just relax a bit.
Speaker F:It's good.
Speaker F:I'm still in control of everything.
Speaker F:So he often uses humor with me.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker F:And so in the past week, if I had to talk about a God wink, I.
Speaker F:You know what?
Speaker F:I might have to think about that a little more because there's probably, like 20,000.
Speaker F:But it's something that I have to.
Speaker F:That I have to, like, intentionally.
Speaker F:It's the same thing.
Speaker F:We do when we're do like if we're recording the podcast every week and then we're talking before we start and we're like, okay, who's got a God wink for this week?
Speaker F:And sometimes each of us has like 80.
Speaker F:And then sometimes we're all like, maybe I could use this one.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't know if I've had any.
Speaker A:It's hard to think about it.
Speaker F:It's true.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Yesterday I was at play rehearsal and it was like the first play rehearsal where I actually felt a little nervous.
Speaker F:Because the play's coming.
Speaker A:But then during one of the axe, some kid kicked his shoe and it hit the roof and made a dent and everyone just burst out laughing.
Speaker F:Oh my gosh.
Speaker C:That actually kind of reminds me of we're approaching our piano festival and last year one of our teacher students, they were walking up for a duet and this girl's heel came off her shoe.
Speaker C:So she took her shoe off.
Speaker C:She walked up with her shoe in hand and had to play through a song.
Speaker C:And I did not feel nervous after that.
Speaker F:That's hilarious.
Speaker F:Yeah, that's pretty easy to follow after something like that happens.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker F:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker F:Those are great examples.
Speaker F:I think that's exactly it, you know what I mean, where it's like light hearted.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker C:I've heard from some people that you wrote a book about consecrated virgin life and discerning it.
Speaker C:Would you like to tell us about that?
Speaker F:I would.
Speaker F:I would love to tell you about it.
Speaker F:It's actually coming out shortly, so I'm not exactly sure of.
Speaker F:Of the date, but it's a bit.
Speaker F:It's kind of in the final stages.
Speaker F:It's been all put together.
Speaker F:It'll be sent off to the printers shortly, which is really exciting.
Speaker F:And so I was.
Speaker F:So it's been about five years since I was consecrated and this past summer I went out to Calgary actually to do kind of a retreat week with some women who are in candidacy for consecrated virginity.
Speaker F:So that's part of the formation process.
Speaker F:And so they had asked me to come out and share about a bunch of different things about consecrated virginity, especially about the.
Speaker F:The theology of consecrated virginity.
Speaker F:So what does it actually mean that consecrated virgins are spouses of Christ?
Speaker F:How do we fit into the church at large?
Speaker F:What does it mean to be a spiritual mother?
Speaker F:What does it mean to have a Marian aspect to our vocation and all kinds of stuff like that.
Speaker F:So I went out and usually if I'm giving a talk, I very rarely write things out like Word for word, I'll just put points and then, you know, say things like that.
Speaker F:But I thought, I better write everything out so that I don't spout heresy when I'm giving formation to these women.
Speaker F:So I wrote it all out, and then I realized when I got home that I had written almost double what I had written for my master's thesis.
Speaker F:So it was, like, a lot of stuff on paper.
Speaker F:And so then I was like, okay, maybe I could turn this into a book, because there's not really anything available for consecrated virginity specifically at the moment.
Speaker F:There's, like, a few books here and there that are kind of general, but not necessarily with kind of a going through things in a systematic way.
Speaker F:So.
Speaker F:So then I.
Speaker F:I sent a couple of emails to a couple of different publishers that I know are good, and one of them got back to me and was like, yeah, hey, we actually passed your book on to one of our editors, who happens to be a consecrated virgin, which is super cool because there's not, like, that many of us.
Speaker F:So I was like, okay, Lord, this is.
Speaker F:Thank you.
Speaker F:And she read it and she liked it.
Speaker F:So then.
Speaker F:Yeah, so then it's.
Speaker F:Sophia Institute Press is the name of the publisher.
Speaker F:And they're like, they're a really great publisher.
Speaker F:They've been super helpful.
Speaker F:And so we went through the whole process of editing and then getting endorsements for the book and doing all of those kind of things.
Speaker F:And so now it's at the stage where all of that stuff is done, and they have to send it to the printers, and then it will come back in, I think, probably a few months, it will be available for people.
Speaker F:And it's called.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker F:Espouse to Christ A Theology of Consecrated Virginity.
Speaker F:So I'm really excited.
Speaker F:I'm.
Speaker F:It's been, like, one of those things where, you know, very clearly it's the Lord, because every door was, like, open in a way that I'm like, this could not be anything but him, you know, orchestrating it all.
Speaker F:So I'm really.
Speaker F:I'm very grateful and very excited, and it's very weird to see my name on the front of a book.
Speaker A:So what.
Speaker A:We're trying to write a book.
Speaker A:What was the process of writing like for you?
Speaker F:It was.
Speaker F:It was kind of neat again, because.
Speaker F:So for me, I actually have a thing called fibromyalgia, which is, like a chronic illness that involves bodily pain, but also it involves something that they call, like, brain fog.
Speaker F:So, like, you know, if you.
Speaker F:You.
Speaker F:If you get, like, low blood sugar and you haven't eaten in a while.
Speaker F:And it kind of feels like your brain, like, is like, stalling.
Speaker F:Like you can't process stuff super well and you're, like, having trouble getting a sentence out.
Speaker F:So brain fog is a little bit like that.
Speaker F:So usually when I'm doing some writing, like with my thesis or I've been trying to turn my thesis into a book for forever, working on that.
Speaker F:But with this, there was a particular grace to be able to write and kind of just keep writing without hitting the usual wall that I had.
Speaker F:So, yeah, so that it was.
Speaker F:It was pretty cool.
Speaker F:But mainly for me, I'm like.
Speaker F:I'm definitely the kind of person who gets into a rhythm and just like, keeps going until I can't go anymore.
Speaker F:So I would just write for a bunch of hours and then.
Speaker F:And then be finished a chapter and then kind of go on to the next thing.
Speaker F:Yeah, so it was fun.
Speaker C:That's not how it's working.
Speaker A:I have trouble focusing.
Speaker A:That's our problem.
Speaker C:But I mean, like, with three of us, it's easier to keep at it.
Speaker A:Yeah, we found that's not really the case.
Speaker C:I mean, like, with all the books I've tried to write, I've, like, stopped writing because I don't have enough time.
Speaker C:But we're still writing.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker A:So what is a consecrated virgin?
Speaker F:Oh, so a consecrated virgin is a woman.
Speaker F:So it's a vocation only open to women.
Speaker F:And it's actually the first form of consecrated life in the church.
Speaker F:So consecrated basically means that.
Speaker F:That something is set apart from for God.
Speaker F:So you would consecrate, like an altar, you would consecrate a person, you would consecrate.
Speaker F:You can consecrate holy things to set them apart.
Speaker F:Like, I'm blessed to have a chapel in my home.
Speaker F:So my chapel here was consecrated, the altar was consecrated.
Speaker F:And so consecrated virgin is from, like, the earliest beginnings of the church, there were women who really felt called to belong to the Lord alone and who are considered spouses of Christ.
Speaker F:So in.
Speaker F:In a sense, married to Jesus instead of being married to a human man and having.
Speaker F:Having children?
Speaker F:Well, Jesus is a human man, so let me rephrase that.
Speaker F:Instead of being married to, like, another man in who is fleshly in our time and space, does that make sense as opposed to being married to Jesus?
Speaker F:Yes.
Speaker F:So.
Speaker F:So somebody who's married to Jesus and would be.
Speaker F:Would give her whole life to the Lord and to be available for whatever he would call her to, and then to be a sign of heaven.
Speaker F:So essentially, in Heaven.
Speaker F:When we get to heaven, there's no marriage in heaven.
Speaker F:This is what.
Speaker F:What Jesus says, right, that marriage is for this life because it's a sign of the eternal realities of heaven.
Speaker F:So in heaven, we will all be wed to God.
Speaker F:We'll all be married to God in the sense that we'll belong to him, body and soul.
Speaker F:And there will be a complete union of us with God and with each other.
Speaker F:And so the consecrated virgins in the beginning were seen as this sign of what we're all called to in the future, that they were living here and now what we're all called to, what we'll all be living one day.
Speaker F:So, yeah, so the consecrated virgins, like St.
Speaker F:Agatha, St.
Speaker F:Lucy, St.
Speaker F:Agnes, there were lots of consecrated virgins that you can hear at.
Speaker F:At Mass.
Speaker F:Like, you know, when in the Eucharistic prayers, when we talk about Peter, Paul, James, Cyprian, like, the whole list of saints that.
Speaker F:That they'll include in the Eucharistic prayer, sometimes you can hear the women's names.
Speaker F:Most of the women are actually consecrated virgins.
Speaker C:So how did you choose to be a consecrated virgin and not a religious sister?
Speaker F:I actually was like, when I kind of came back to the church, I talked before about having this kind of reversion or conversion back to the faith.
Speaker F:And when that happened, immediately I was like, well, obviously I have to be a sister, because if you love Jesus, then the craziest thing that you could do is become a religious sister.
Speaker F:So.
Speaker F:So I went and I visited a religious order.
Speaker F:But then I also really quickly realized that I was still a baby in my faith.
Speaker F:Like, even though I grew up Catholic, I never really had a relationship with the Lord, like, knew him in a personal way until I had this reversion after university.
Speaker F:So when I was.
Speaker F:Yeah, I visited this religious order, realized I needed to grow a lot more in my faith.
Speaker F:And then I was in Ottawa.
Speaker F:I had come here and was working as a youth minister for a little while.
Speaker F:And I actually discerned with a religious order here called the Servants of the Cross for a year and a half.
Speaker F:And it was beautiful in so many ways.
Speaker F:If anybody's listening to this now, you can pray for Sister Anna, who is the foundress of the order.
Speaker F:She recently passed away.
Speaker F:So.
Speaker F:So you can say a prayer for her.
Speaker F:But she.
Speaker F:And being with them for a year and a half, I was the first one to join.
Speaker F:And it really cemented my prayer life.
Speaker F:I would have to say, like, the consistency of that, having, like an hour every day of just Being with the Lord and hearing his voice was such a beautiful thing.
Speaker F:And during that time, I.
Speaker F:I discerned that it wasn't.
Speaker F:The Lord was not calling me to.
Speaker F:To be with that order.
Speaker F:So then I.
Speaker F:What they call discerning out is so people will talk about that with seminary or with religious orders, is that if you discern the Lord is not calling you to some place, it's kind of called discerning out.
Speaker F:So I discerned out of that order.
Speaker F:And then for the next few years, I moved to Winnipeg, which is where I met.
Speaker F:Well, I met your Aunt Jacinta, your aunt Amy.
Speaker F:I met her on my net year, when I did a year of net.
Speaker F:And then I was in Winnipeg and I was like, hanging out with lots of your family peeps at the time.
Speaker F:And I was kind of open to everything there.
Speaker F:Like, I don't know, Lord, if you want me to get married or you want me to whatever.
Speaker F:But nothing really.
Speaker F:Nothing really kind of happened in terms of my vocational discernment there.
Speaker F:And then I moved back to Toronto so I could be a little bit closer to my family, because they're in Ottawa.
Speaker F:And while I was in Toronto, I really realized that there were a lot of places of my heart that the Lord needed to bring healing to.
Speaker F:And the Sisters of Life is such a beautiful religious order.
Speaker F:I'm sure you'll have them on one of them at some point.
Speaker F:Oh, they're so beautiful.
Speaker F:And they've been such good friends to me, their order.
Speaker F:And I was on a discernment, or not a discernment retreat, but I was on a retreat with them at one point.
Speaker F:And one of the sisters talked about how we receive our vocation as a gift from the Lord that then we return to him with.
Speaker F:With all of us.
Speaker F:We return to him in.
Speaker F:In a specific way.
Speaker F:And I realized that there are some places in my heart that really needed healing for me to be able to receive the gift of my vocation from Him.
Speaker F:And so then that's kind of what I prayed for.
Speaker F:Instead of praying like, lord, show me what my vocation is.
Speaker F:I was praying like, lord, heal my heart.
Speaker F:Make my heart whole.
Speaker F:And so then I experienced this really significant healing on that same retreat with the Sisters of Life, which was such a beautiful gift.
Speaker F:And as soon as I had that experience of the Lord really healing a part of my heart that.
Speaker F:That needed his mercy and his wholeness, I started feeling in a.
Speaker F:In a really profound way again, this call to be his alone that I had felt when I first had this reversion.
Speaker F:First kind of came back to the faith.
Speaker F:And after that, I started discerning religious orders then.
Speaker F:So I was like, okay, you're calling me to religious life, Lord.
Speaker F:Great.
Speaker F:So I.
Speaker F:I went on a discernment retreat with the Sisters of Life.
Speaker F:I went to visit the Religious Sisters of Mercy of Alma in Michigan.
Speaker F:I went to see a couple of other orders.
Speaker F:And it seemed like everywhere I went that the Lord was shutting that door, like, showing me that it wasn't.
Speaker F:I wasn't called to this order or this order.
Speaker F:This order.
Speaker F:And it was actually really painful.
Speaker F:It was a painful place to be because I was like, lord, I feel like you're calling me to be yours and to belong to you, and I'm trying to give myself to you, and you're refusing me in all of these different ways.
Speaker F:Um, and then I actually ended up meeting with Cardinal Collins.
Speaker F:I made an appointment to see him.
Speaker F:He was the Archbishop of Toronto at the time.
Speaker F:Just to talk to him about these vocations things.
Speaker F:And when I.
Speaker F:When I went to see him, I was talking to him about my own experience and what I felt called to.
Speaker F:And then he was like, oh, that sounds like consecrated virginity.
Speaker F:And if.
Speaker F:If you've seen Cardinal Collins talk before, he's like, such a beautiful man.
Speaker F:And I was like, okay, so maybe I should look more at consecrated virginity.
Speaker F:And I knew kind of what it was because I had actually been to a consecration a few years before, but I specifically remember being at that consecration and being like, thank you, Lord, that you're not calling me to this vocation, because it seemed like the most terrible vocation, because you don't have a husband to kill bugs, and you don't have a religious community to change your diapers when you get old and, like, look after you until you die.
Speaker F:So.
Speaker F:So, see, I was.
Speaker F:I just.
Speaker F:I remember thinking that.
Speaker F:So it was kind of funny to come back around.
Speaker F:And then.
Speaker F:But then my heart was, like, open to looking at it as a possibility.
Speaker F:And so I spoke with Bishop Wassano, who is the auxiliary bishop of one of the auxiliary bishops of Toronto, who's in charge of the consecrated virgins.
Speaker F:It's called the Ordo Virginum in Latin.
Speaker F:And I met with him, shared with him about my story and where my discernment was at, and he was like, yeah, I think it would be good to look into this.
Speaker F:So then I started meeting with the woman who was doing formation at the time.
Speaker F:And.
Speaker F:And it was really beautiful because it was, like, all the things that my heart desired as I was Going into this formation that it was like, instead of, like a closed door, it was like a yes from the Lord and a yes from the Lord and a yes from the Lord.
Speaker F:And it was this thing of seeing how he created my heart to love and how that matches up exactly with this vocation, with how women who are in this vocation are called to love.
Speaker F:So that was kind of my process for.
Speaker F:For discernment and ending up here at Consecrated Virginity.
Speaker H:Wow.
Speaker A:So this podcast is a lot about discernment, and you covered a lot.
Speaker A:We have a few more questions, though.
Speaker C:What does discernment mean, Jacinta?
Speaker A:Definition, detour.
Speaker A:Discernment is the process of coming to a decision using prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit.
Speaker A:Or at least that's how we define it.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker C:Looked it up, and it wasn't exactly that.
Speaker A:It was a little harder to comprehend.
Speaker F:I think your definition is good.
Speaker F:I like it.
Speaker A:You touched a little bit, I think, on this one.
Speaker A:All right, but what was your biggest struggle when discerning?
Speaker F:I think partly it was feeling like.
Speaker F:Yeah, like I was.
Speaker F:I kind of felt a little bit like I was struggling to find the Lord's will.
Speaker F:So, like, it was there somewhere, and if I just looked in the right way or if I just went to the right thing or if I just prayed in the right way that, you know, he.
Speaker F:It would be kind of magically revealed to me.
Speaker F:Like, it felt actually a little bit like his will was hidden from me, and it was something that I had to find.
Speaker F:And I think that that can be common in.
Speaker F:In discernment in some ways, or it can also be a way that, like, that the enemy will kind of get in there and.
Speaker F:And be like, well, he's hiding something from you, or you're not.
Speaker F:You're not at a holy enough place in your spiritual life to enter into your vocation or to know your vocation yet or, you know.
Speaker F:So I think the thing that I struggled the most with was.
Speaker F:Was just being patient and trusting that the Lord can speak to me in my idiocy, like, in all the ways that I like, you know, for all of us.
Speaker F:It's like, we all pray imperfectly.
Speaker F:We all hear the Lord's voice imperfectly.
Speaker F:We all.
Speaker F:But for me, I think it was a process of coming to know that actually that's not a barrier to the Lord.
Speaker F:Like, he knows me well enough that he can speak in.
Speaker F:Like, even with all of my imperfections, and even with the imperfections in the way that I.
Speaker F:The way that I hear Him.
Speaker F:So I think that was.
Speaker F:I think that was, like, the most challenging thing for me was, like, being patient and learning to just trust his timing for things.
Speaker F:And I have to say, it was actually perfect because he knows me so well.
Speaker F:That he knows me or that he knows that if he would have kind of brought me to an understanding that consecrated virginity was my vocation when I was younger, I.
Speaker F:I wouldn't have actually been ready to enter into this vocation.
Speaker F:But I'm like, the kind of person who's like.
Speaker F:When he shows me something, I'm like, all in, you know, Like, I'm like, I want to go.
Speaker F:So it would have been torture for me to wait if I would have found out about this vocation earlier, because generally you can't actually start formation for this vocation until you're at least 25 years old in most dioceses.
Speaker F:So.
Speaker F:Yeah, so he knows that it was better for me to kind of grow and then find out about this vocation when.
Speaker F:When I would actually be able to start formation and go into it.
Speaker C:So what I heard was I struggle with this too.
Speaker C:Like, trusting and surrendering yourself to him is hard, but what can we do to help us to trust him more?
Speaker C:Do you have any suggestions?
Speaker F:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker F:I think that everything is grace.
Speaker F:So partly I think it's asking him, like, just asking him for the grace to be able to trust more and more.
Speaker F:And then I think also there's like, he gives us so many opportunities in our day to trust him and to trust his providence and his plan for us.
Speaker F:And Saint Alphonsus Liguori has this great book called Uniformity with God's Will.
Speaker F:And in it he talks about seeing everything that happens in our day as a gift from the Lord.
Speaker F:And if it's something that's like a blessing, then we can just receive that.
Speaker F:It's easy to receive those things as a gift from the Lord, right?
Speaker F:When there's, like, something nice that happens or something works out or whatever.
Speaker F:And the hard part is seeing the.
Speaker F:The things that happen that are difficult or that don't seem like they're good at all.
Speaker F:Like, trusting that the Lord has allowed those things for us because it's good for our holiness and for our eternal salvation.
Speaker F:Right?
Speaker F:So.
Speaker F:So growing in trust for the Lord doesn't have to be always about, you know, this massive thing of vocation or whatever it is.
Speaker F:But it's like, I trust you, Lord.
Speaker F:When I wanted the last cookie that was on the plate and then somebody else took it, like, I trust you that you're Gonna give me what's good for me and what's delightful for me.
Speaker F:Even, like, I trust, you know, or when you miss your bus, like, Lord, I trust you that you can bring good from this Lord.
Speaker F:So all of those, like, little things, it's like making those little acts of trust that help.
Speaker F:It's kind of like going to the gym, right?
Speaker F:So, like, you go to the gym, if you start with 5,000 pounds of weights, you're going to crush yourself and leave in an ambulance, right?
Speaker F:But if you start with, like, just little barbells and then you slowly.
Speaker F:You slowly work up, you exercise those muscles, and then it becomes actually easy to lift those same things after a while.
Speaker F:So it's similar, I think, with trust in the Lord.
Speaker F:Like, we learn to trust him, like St.
Speaker F:Therese, you know, like, in the little things, in the small things, to trust the Lord and to love in those little ways.
Speaker F:And then.
Speaker F:And then it becomes.
Speaker F:Yeah, it becomes easier to trust him with the.
Speaker F:With the big things.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:More practical question is, how do you, like, what's the process of becoming a consecrated virgin?
Speaker F:Right.
Speaker F:Right now it's a really interesting time to be part of this vocation, I found, because it was the oldest vocation, the oldest form of consecrated life in the church.
Speaker F:But after the first few hundred years of the church, there was this rise in religious orders.
Speaker F:So there were women and men who had started living together in communities.
Speaker F:And then as religious orders grew up, so like the Benedictines, the Carmelites, and, you know, even later, like the Jesuits and all of these religious orders.
Speaker F:But earlier in the church, when they started rising up, there actually was a decrease in the number of consecrated virgins and eventually the rite of consecrating a virgin.
Speaker F:So when I say, right, I mean, like, the Mass or the words that the church uses to perform the consecration, it went into disuse.
Speaker F:So then there were.
Speaker F:There were no consecrated virgins, really, or some who were kind of living as consecrated virgins.
Speaker F:But.
Speaker F:But the rite was only used for nuns who were in, like, a religious enclosure and who like contemplative nuns.
Speaker F:So it went out of use for a long time.
Speaker F:And around the time of the Second Vatican Council or just before, there were women who were going to their bishops and.
Speaker F:And basically saying, like, hey, I feel like maybe I'm called to this thing.
Speaker F:I don't know what it is, or, like, I know about consecrated virginity.
Speaker F:I feel like maybe I'm called to it.
Speaker F:And so there was this movement of the Holy Spirit and the Second Vatican Council called For like a re promulgation of the rite of consecration of a virgin living in the world.
Speaker F:So that's what the whole thing is.
Speaker F:Consecrated virginity lived in the world.
Speaker F:And so after that, there were women who started to receive this consecration.
Speaker F:And now There are about 5,000 in the world.
Speaker H:But.
Speaker F:But what's happened is that the more women there are who are interested or who receive this consecration, the more bishops are going to Rome and being like, what are we supposed to do with these women?
Speaker F:Like, there wasn't any kind of set, like they have to study for this many years.
Speaker F:They have to do this.
Speaker F:They have to do this to become a consecrated Virgin.
Speaker F: So in: Speaker F:And so even if you type something approximate in Google, you'll find the document.
Speaker F:It's fine.
Speaker F:I know Latin is tricky, but in the document it outlines a little bit about what happens.
Speaker F:So most women, most dioceses would say that women have to be 25 in order to begin formation.
Speaker F:And that's later than for most religious orders, because when you receive the consecration, instead of professing vows of poverty, chastity and obedience like a religious sister does, you actually receive the consecration.
Speaker F:And so it's similar to when something becomes like, blessed, you can't, like, unbless it.
Speaker F:So when you receive the consecration, you receive it once, and it's for the rest of eternity, even into eternity.
Speaker F:So not just this life, but for all of eternity.
Speaker F:This is who.
Speaker F:Who I'll be in Jesus.
Speaker F:And so for preparation for that, people like dices all around the world are still kind of figuring it out, what it, what it looks like.
Speaker F:But in general, it would be one to two years of what they call aspirancy, which is like an initial time of learning more about the vocation and learning more about how the Lord is calling you to see if maybe there's a calling to this vocation.
Speaker F:And then if it seems like, yes, somebody might be called, then they would move into what's called candidacy.
Speaker F:And that's another two to three years where they would do lots of different formations, so theology formation, so that they know, you know, how to speak responsibly about the teachings of the church and spiritual formation, human formation, pastoral formation, in order to be prepared to actually live this vocation.
Speaker F:And then at the conclusion of that, then once the bishop kind of decides that you're.
Speaker F:You might be ready to receive the consecration, he'll issue what's called a call to orders.
Speaker F:And it's because it's the Order of Virgins is what it's called for all the women in this vocation worldwide.
Speaker F:And so then he'll give you a letter with a call to orders that sets the time of your consecration.
Speaker F:And the bishop himself is the one who consecrates you.
Speaker F:So it can't be delegated to, you know, a parish priest or something like that, because consecrated virgins, instead of having like a religious superior and belonging to a religious order, and you might go to different diocese or wherever the.
Speaker F:The religious order is.
Speaker F:A consecrated virgin is part of her diocese.
Speaker F:So she's.
Speaker F:She has a special relationship with the diocesan bishop and she is asked to pray for the people of the diocese and to take part in.
Speaker F:In support supporting the works of the diocese and all of those kind of.
Speaker F:Those kind of things.
Speaker F:So it's pretty cool.
Speaker C:That's beautiful.
Speaker C:What did you feel the day you made these?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:The day you had your consecration?
Speaker F:Yeah, it was.
Speaker F:It was really interesting because I was very grateful to have to have it on like a Saturday in the fall in Toronto on a feast day that was really meaningful to me.
Speaker F:It was the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross.
Speaker F:And because suffering has kind of been a part of my.
Speaker F:My own story or in what the Lord has done in my life, it was beautiful that it would be on that.
Speaker F:On that day about the triumph of the Cross of Jesus.
Speaker F:And also it happens to be my baptism anniversary.
Speaker F:So that was awesome.
Speaker F:And so I had, like, all my friends were able to come, students were able to come.
Speaker F:I was working in campus ministry at the time.
Speaker F:All my relatives came, which was awesome because I'm like the only one out of all of my cousins who are practicing their faith.
Speaker F:But all my cousins still came and they were like, do you know all of those priests?
Speaker F:Because there was like 17 priests that were concelebrating.
Speaker F:It was awesome.
Speaker F:But it was a beautiful witness to them, I think.
Speaker F:And.
Speaker F:And so it was.
Speaker F:It was like I felt such a peace at finally entering into this vocation, like, because vocational discernment is not just about, like, me and what I think I'm called to, but it's something that the church also affirms in you.
Speaker F:Right.
Speaker F:So.
Speaker F:So it felt like such a gift to have the church saying through the person of the bishop, like, yes, this is who you are in Jesus.
Speaker F:And afterwards, I remember speaking to Mary, who's another consecrated virgin, who did my formation with me, and she said, how do you feel?
Speaker F:And I said, I feel more like myself.
Speaker F:Like, I don't know if I was feeling, if I was expecting to feel something different, but I just felt like the most myself because.
Speaker F:Because this is who Jesus created me to be to Him.
Speaker F:And it was like the church was affirming this too.
Speaker F:And it's official for all of eternity and.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker F:And so it's like I can, in the same way you can kind of like rely on marriage vows when you're married to someone.
Speaker F:It's like I can rely on the graces of this consecration for, for all of the things that I need.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:We have like two more questions.
Speaker F:Sure.
Speaker A:So kind of our wrap up question for the main one is what are some tips you have for people on discerning?
Speaker F:Nice.
Speaker F:Some things on discerning.
Speaker F:I think the.
Speaker F:If you're looking at discerning a vocation to consecrated virginity, it's really similar in a lot of ways to other vocations in terms of the regular stuff like developing a deep prayer life, maybe getting a spiritual director.
Speaker F:If you can get a spiritual director, you can contact your diocesan office of vocations and ask if they could maybe connect you to someone and accessing the sacraments, so making sure you go to Mass at least each week, but more if you can, and having good holy friendships or people that you trust that you can talk things out with.
Speaker F:So those would be like the general things for discernment and then also for consecrated virginity.
Speaker F:I think it's helpful in the same way that you would develop relationships with religious orders if you were, if you were feeling called to become a religious sister, you can develop a relationship with, with the diocese and, and with the bishop, actually.
Speaker F:So if you're interested in, in discerning or in learning more about consecrated virginity, you can contact your diocesan vocations director or you can contact the office of the bishop.
Speaker F:Because for consecrated virginity, the diocesan bishop is the one who's like responsible for formation and care of consecrated virgins.
Speaker F:Then having a conversation with him or starting that conversation can be really helpful and being like, hey, I'm like interested in maybe knowing more about this or I feel like maybe I might be called here and, and then he can, he can walk with you a little bit or connect you with other women who are maybe already consecrated.
Speaker F:And then I think lastly, I would say right now we're in the process of forming a national association of consecrated Virgins in Canada.
Speaker F:So it's called Ordo Virginum in Canada and we'll have a website shortly, so you can kind of keep checking back for that.
Speaker F:But we're hoping to have things like, like, kind of like a virtual meet and greet with consecrated virgins, like coffee and chat with consecrated virgins for people who have questions.
Speaker F:So we're hoping that that will be a big help to people as well.
Speaker C:So what's the best part of being a consecrated virgin?
Speaker F:Oh, the best part about being a consecrated virgin?
Speaker F:I would say two things.
Speaker F:One is not at all serious and one is serious.
Speaker F:So the not at all serious part is that I get to sleep in in the morning if I need to, and not so I'm not called like a religious sister to get up at 5:00 or 5:30 in the morning, which is lovely.
Speaker F:But consecrated virgins, we do get to set our own, our own schedule, which is like a beautiful thing and also kind of a scary thing because there's like nobody to kick your butt if you're like, you know, I mean, not praying like you should or like not getting up in the morning.
Speaker F:So you, you do actually have to be like responsible with your time and have some sense of like, self discipline so that you can, so that you can like live the life well.
Speaker F:But, but it is also great to be able to have that flexibility and schedule and to be able to like, this leads into the actual serious thing is that one of the things that I found when I was discerning this was that it's always given me a great amount of joy to not know what the future holds.
Speaker F:And I know that for some people that can be really scary or, or they like, they don't find joy in that.
Speaker F:But for me it feels like a big adventure in life to not know like, where the Lord is going to bring me or what he's going to ask me to do or, or any of those kind of things.
Speaker F:And I get a huge amount of excitement from that.
Speaker F:So I think partly the best part of this vocation for me is just the adventure of it and how like, how he uses me in ways that I never would have thought of but that are, that are just so like, full of joy because it's such a hallmark of the Lord that when we pour ourselves out for him that he gives us back even more than we give.
Speaker F:So, so that's a real joy for me is to be able to be free to.
Speaker F:Free to love in whatever way he needs me to love in any moment for the rest of my life.
Speaker C:So how do you get fellowship or sisterhood?
Speaker A:We know, but there were a few more that popped up.
Speaker F:So yeah, that's fine.
Speaker F:I'm happy I could talk about this vocation for forever.
Speaker F:It's gonna be an 18 hour podcast.
Speaker F:Yes.
Speaker F:But you actually have to be really intentional about that, about like making relationships and about having, having that kind of community.
Speaker F:And so part of it is for me anyways, and I think for most consecrated virgins is that there's a really beautiful link to have to your home parish, so to have that kind of family at your home parish.
Speaker F:And I have a really beautiful parish called Holy Redeemer here in Canada, Ontario.
Speaker F:And so I have lots of really beautiful friends through that.
Speaker F:And I try to be very intentional with, with spending time with people who, like, you know, when you hang out with people and you just feel like, like you're closer to God after you're done hanging out with them.
Speaker F:Like, even if it's not Jesus conversations, it's just like, so life giving and fun.
Speaker F:So I have lots of really good relationships like that, which is beautiful.
Speaker F:But then also the Lord provides.
Speaker F:And I've talked to other consecrated virgins about this too, and they're most of us, I think all of us actually that I've talked to have had this, this kind of experience of like wherever we go, like if we move or we change parents, like wherever we are, it's almost like the Lord kind of brings community to us or opportunities to community, to have community to us because.
Speaker F:Because he loves us and because He.
Speaker F:He provides for all of our needs.
Speaker F:Right.
Speaker F:And we all need that kind of community.
Speaker F:And He's a very generous spouse.
Speaker A:So we have one last question.
Speaker A:Speaking of community, this question from the audience comes from someone who says they have known you a long time.
Speaker A:Their question is, what is your biggest struggle and why is it road rage?
Speaker F:I feel like there's a story here.
Speaker A:I should also reveal.
Speaker A:The listener is someone I call Auntie Amy.
Speaker F:Nice.
Speaker F:That's amazing.
Speaker F:So I would like.
Speaker F:I would just like to point out to Aunt Amy that, that this lent my actual.
Speaker F:One of my things is like, I'm not gonna ever drive in the fast lane.
Speaker F:I'm only gonna go in the medium lane.
Speaker F:And I'm always gonna leave appropriate distances between myself and the cars in front of me, even if they're going slow.
Speaker F:So I may or may not have a kind of personality that is better to drive in crazy cities like New York and Rome, which when Auntie Amy and I were living together in Winnipeg, doesn't really match with Winnipeg traffic because people are a little bit slower.
Speaker F:So.
Speaker F:So it is true that, that I like to go places fast and also that this is going to be a way that the Lord is going to continue to show me where how much patience I need.
Speaker C:So, like, summed up, you're just like a bad driver.
Speaker F:Yeah, no, actually, I'm an amazing driver.
Speaker F:I'm so good.
Speaker F:I'm a good driver, but I'm like a good race car driver.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker F:It's just not good to be a race car driver when you're like, in a city with a speed limit of like 40 on most streets, you know?
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker C:Is there anything else you feel like the Holy Spirit is calling you to say before we wrap up?
Speaker F:Let me see.
Speaker F:I think maybe.
Speaker F:I think the only thing that I could say is, or things that I'm thinking of, like questions that people usually have.
Speaker F:I think the only thing we haven't covered is like, looking at maybe some differences between consecrated virginity and religious life that sometimes people wonder about.
Speaker F:And some of the differences are, like, practical things like I can't take a vow of poverty because consecrated virgins, we support ourselves, so we either, you know, work or have some other way to support for our financial means.
Speaker F:And, and so then to take a vow of poverty means that you actually don't own anything.
Speaker F:You don't have money of your own, you don't anything like that.
Speaker F:So we can't take a vow of poverty and instead we make a perpetual promise of, of chastity.
Speaker F:So like perfect, perpetual perfect chastity is what we, is what we promise.
Speaker F:So, so that's one, some, one kind of difference between religious life and consecrated virginity is that we receive this consecration after we make this promise of perpetual perfect chastity, as opposed to making promises or vows of poverty, chastity and obedience.
Speaker F:And then we also, consecrated virgins don't wear habits.
Speaker F:So a lot of religious orders will wear habits as kind of like a distinctive way of showing, you know, this radical nature of, of being a bride of Christ in the world.
Speaker F:And it's a beautiful witness, this habit.
Speaker F:And so consecrated virgins don't wear habits.
Speaker F:And part of the vocation is called a consecrated virgin living in the world.
Speaker F:Which means that, that I'm kind of like.
Speaker F:So if you look at religious orders, we would say that they're, that they're, they have a natural separation from the world in the sense that, that they don't, like, they don't use social media generally, a lot of them anyways, or like, they generally don't read newspapers or watch the news or, or, you know, things like that.
Speaker F:And they kind of have a stricter withdrawal from the world to be.
Speaker F:To be really deeply present to the Lord.
Speaker F:And so consecrated virgins share a lot of that, but also, in a way, are kind of bringing that into.
Speaker F:Into the world because we're embedded in the world, in the jobs that we have, in the places that we live, in the things that we're wearing in.
Speaker F:In the way we interact with the world.
Speaker F:So.
Speaker F:So that's another little bit of a difference, too.
Speaker F:But I do also have a wedding ring.
Speaker F:Most religious sisters will wear a wedding.
Speaker F:A wedding band.
Speaker F:And so I get to have my wedding band, too.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker F:So I think those are the only things that I can think.
Speaker F:Can you guys think of any other questions?
Speaker A:I don't think so.
Speaker F:I know we talked about a lot.
Speaker A:Oh, did you pick your ring?
Speaker A:I guess dessert.
Speaker F:Oh, yes.
Speaker F:So I did pick my ring.
Speaker F:It was a.
Speaker F:I got actually a temporary ring, so I'll.
Speaker F:I'll, like, put it up to the camera thing.
Speaker F:So if you are looking at the camera right now, there is a.
Speaker F:It's like a ring that I got from Pandora, and it's got hearts in it.
Speaker F:And I got that when I did a temporary private promise of celibacy.
Speaker F:So religious sisters will often do, like, they do formation for a few years, and then they make temporary vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience for one year at a time.
Speaker F:And they'll do that usually three to five times, three to five years in a row before they make, like, permanent vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience for the rest of their life.
Speaker F:But for consecrated virginity, there's no kind of temporary thing that you do first.
Speaker F:So it's just when.
Speaker F:When you're ready, you receive the consecration, and it's permanent and forever.
Speaker F:So you can, and anybody can kind of do this at any point, is make.
Speaker F:Just to your spiritual director or to a bishop or whoever, you can make a private promise of celibacy to the Lord.
Speaker F:So that means that you're living as someone who.
Speaker F:Who will not date or get married or have children and who will practice perfect chastity for a year.
Speaker F:And you can then kind of test the fruits.
Speaker F:So see, does it feel like you're more you?
Speaker F:Does it feel peaceful?
Speaker F:Does it feel.
Speaker F:So I did that at first, and that was the ring that I got for that, which is basically just to remind myself.
Speaker F:And so, you know, all the guys who would be hitting on me like, every day, everywhere I would go, then I could just, like, put my ring up and be like, no, come on.
Speaker F:And then my actual ring, I went to Nova Scotia, because I used to live in Nova Scotia.
Speaker F:And I went there for a conference and I was like, oh, it'd be so nice if I could get my, like, wedding band, my wedding marriage ring to Jesus in Nova Scotia.
Speaker F:And then I looked at like every store in that I went, and there was like nothing.
Speaker F:There was like nothing that I wanted or it was like eighteen hundred dollars.
Speaker F:I was like, I'm not paying that.
Speaker F:Anyway, so then I was at the airport on the way out and there was a like a made in Nova Scotia kiosk thing and there was a beautiful steel ring there and they were 80 off because they were going out of business.
Speaker F:So I got a super cheap and beautiful ring as I was leaving Nova Scotia.
Speaker F:And that was definitely a godwink.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker F:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think it's time to wrap up.
Speaker A:It's been wonderful being here.
Speaker A:Be sure you check out the links to her book and her podcast, which will be in the show notes below.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's been great having you here.
Speaker F:It's been really great to join you guys.
Speaker F:Thank you guys so much for having me.
Speaker F:And I just wanted to say it's amazing that you guys are doing this, this podcast and I will keep you in my prayers for sure.
Speaker A:Speaking of prayers, we have a prayer to do before we sign off, I guess.
Speaker F:Yes, yes, we do.
Speaker A:Click note.
Speaker A:Our listeners can find it on our website.
Speaker A:We have a thing where you can download and print it for yourself.
Speaker D:In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker D:Amen.
Speaker D:Dear God, Father of all, I pray that with the help of the Holy Spirit, I may find the path to whom you are calling me to be, whether it be leading a religious, married or single life that I may be open new plans for my vocation.
Speaker D:Help me discern your will, hear your voice, and bring me to where I may best serve and love you.
Speaker D:I pray that I may have abundant peace when my heart is truly aligned with yours.
Speaker D:Please provide the tools and people I need to help me discern my paths and heaven.
Speaker D:I pray that whatever my vocation may be, I may be close to you always.
Speaker D:For the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
Speaker D:Help me to gaze with unveiled face on your glory as you transform me into your image.
Speaker D:Jesus, I surrender myself to you.
Speaker D:Take care of every everything.
Speaker D:Lord, I pray for all past, present and future vocations.
Speaker D:Amen.
Speaker A:Thank you for being with us.
Speaker F:God bless you guys.
Speaker A:God bless.
Speaker A:Oh, I can see why my auntie and my mom Love me there so much.
Speaker H:That was a great interview.
Speaker A:Yeah, super fun.
Speaker A:So talked about.
Speaker A:We covered a lot, lot in that episode.
Speaker F:But what stood out to you guys?
Speaker G:All right, number one, that was so fun.
Speaker G:And Aaron made it very clear what being a consecrated virgin is.
Speaker G:I love how she had said to herself that she was so glad God was not calling her to be a consecrated virgin.
Speaker G:And she later did become one and loves it.
Speaker G:It just shows me like that God has plans in store for us, even ones that we don't fully understand or comprehend.
Speaker G:What about you, Claire?
Speaker C:For me, something that stood out is consecrated virginity is such a unique way to live your life, committed to God and your community.
Speaker C:An average life lived for God.
Speaker C:I find that really beautiful.
Speaker H:Yeah.
Speaker H:For me, I love the God wings, how like God just pops in some humor for her to lighten her up when she's having a rough day.
Speaker H:And another thing was that how when she found the vocation and now that she's living the vocation that she was called to do, she feels more like herself.
Speaker H:Like it feels like what she should be doing and she just feels, yeah, it's right for her.
Speaker G:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker G:That was another thing that really stood out to me.
Speaker G:God always has plans for you and when you're finally doing what he's called you to do, he'll make, you know.
Speaker H:Make you sure it'll feel right.
Speaker G:Yeah.
Speaker H:I also thought it interesting how like she did start going to communities and looking to see if that was her vocation and through discernment decided, oh, that's not for you.
Speaker H:And then the bishop was like, oh.
Speaker A:I think God's calling you to be a consecrated virgin.
Speaker G:Honestly, that was probably a mind blowing moment.
Speaker C:Another reason why we did this episode is to show an aspect of way of living for God that most people don't think of often.
Speaker C:Like you, when you think of discernment, you think of marriage, religious life, priesthood, but not often consecrating virgin.
Speaker C:So I think it was really good to have to see that there is a purpose and a weight of this as well as like the freedom and love.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker H:I thought it really interesting how it was one of the earlier like concentrations.
Speaker H:It was one of the first ones and there was lots that did it.
Speaker H:Like she talked about Saint Agatha, Saint Lucy did it.
Speaker H:But then as religious orders have grown, it kind of died down.
Speaker H:But now it's cool to see that even in our time there's an increase of people living this consecrated virgin single life.
Speaker H:And it's just really cool to see how it's growing again and it's fulfilling the people that maybe didn't really think about it before.
Speaker G:Yeah, it's also a really beautiful thing.
Speaker G:As Mary, she was a consecrated virgin and that'd probably just be amazing.
Speaker H:Yeah, it's just a really neat different vocation that I feel like isn't talked about much nowadays.
Speaker H:And so like we hope to get a few more to hear different aspects, different stories and journeys of how they have gotten to the same vocation.
Speaker G:Also, if you are a consecrated virgin and would like to be part of the show, you can send us a message on our website at arisecatholicmovement.
Speaker G:Just scroll to the bottom.
Speaker G:The form is there.
Speaker H:And if you're not a consecrated virgin, but you're in a religious order or some other form of community like that, feel free to contact us too.
Speaker H:We'd love to have you on our show.
Speaker G:To get a full transcript of our show, get more information on Erin's podcast and book, as well as many other things, go to our show Notes and don't forget to rate, subscribe and share Podcast five stars Burn brighter than four this is Jacinta, Claire and Pax signing off.
Speaker B:The unveiled podcast is an audio production in partnership with Arise Catholic Movement, hosted by Jacinta Lyne and Claire Yuen and produced by Sharon Lyne, Karen Yuen and myself, Pax Yuen.
Speaker B:Audio mixing by Sharing, Sharon and me Pax Editing and music by Sharon Line Tune in to our next episode wherever you get your podcast.
